Join Danny, Valentina and their thought-provoking guest, Jorge, as they take a deep dive into unspoken expectations in our vocabulary and our relationships, then move into what healthy communication and support looks like.
In this episode, we talk a lot about unspoken expectations; how they creep in, how to catch them, and how to let them go. We explore the unspoken expectations around the word ‘date’ and how to receive new connections without this bias. We also contrast romantic dates versus friend dates and how same sex, platonic relationships in the poly community break social norms in our society at large. The value of community support comes up and how not all poly people are as emotionally mature as their vocabulary might imply. Giving support is not always as easy as sending love and light. We scrutinize ‘accountability,’ and the line between ‘support’ and ‘enabling’ someone who always seems to be in need.
Our special guest, Jorge, had no preference on how you pronounce his name. He has been polyamorous for 3 years and takes a lot of pride in how much he’s grown in that time. He’s also a talented craftsman and leatherworker who makes BDSM/Kink toys such as breath-taking floggers. You can find his work on FB and Instagram as TribelessLoser.
FB: https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=61558009155928
Insta: https://www.instagram.com/tribelessloser/
Show Notes:
Valentina’s blog, The Relationship Rebel: http://www.relationship-rebel.com/
Danny’s book, “Is now a good time to talk? How to ask for what you want and get it”: https://amzn.to/3GNWgwM
Great Quotes & Moments from Episode 06 of Poly Café :
“Throughout my time in poly, I’ve been […] trying to receive people as they appear in my life. And it’s been kind of amazing because now, I get to meet people with this, sort of, lack of bias, intention, or expectation. We just meet.” ~Jorge (PolyCafe.org – s01:ep06 – 1m35s)
“It’s just been amazing to be able to receive each person and figure out, not what box in my life do they fit in, but rather, how do we, as two individuals, connect and fit.” ~Jorge (PolyCafe.org – s01:ep06 – 2m15s)
“ ‘Date.’ For me, that word has become absolutely easy. It’s become fun. I go on dates with my friends.” ~Jorge (PolyCafe.org – s01:ep06 – 3m50s)
“What am I only allowed to go on ‘dates’ with romantic partners? .” ~Jorge (PolyCafe.org – s01:ep06 – 4m00s)
“This isn’t a ‘friend date,’ it’s a ‘date,’ but we’re friends.” ~Jorge (PolyCafe.org – s01:ep06 – 4m37s)
“I also understand that my understanding of that word isn’t everyone’s understanding of that word so that opens up situations where we can have these amazing conversations of, ‘what does that look like for you? ‘what does this mean to you?‘ ” ~Jorge (PolyCafe.org – s01:ep06 – 4m45s)
“but we have this incredible friendship that started off as a relationship that society has constantly told me, like, ‘you can’t have that,’ and yet, now I do.” ~Jorge (PolyCafe.org – s01:ep06 – 6m55s)
“I feel like there needs to be a new word for the type of love and connection on the other side of a relationship. Yes, this didn’t work out, but at the same time, it totally did.” ~Danny (PolyCafe.org – s01:ep06 – 7m06s)
“Society has told us that this is gay, that this is wrong, that this is queer, etc. Well, I don’t care what other people think. This is my friend.” ~Jorge (PolyCafe.org – s01:ep06 – 8m36s)
“Before poly, I feel like I was not allowed to really connect with men. Specifically, not allowed to touch men unless it was to fight.” ~Danny (PolyCafe.org – s01:ep06 – 8m56s)
“Poly has completely changed that for me as well. Where now, I’ve never hugged so many men in my life and I would never change it. It’s so incredible to be surrounded by friendships that start to turn into almost like, brotherhood.” ~Danny (PolyCafe.org – s01:ep06 – 9m28s)
“It’s just really amazing how, when both people are willing, you can actually heal those toxic patterns that we learned from childhood of how you interact with people when it comes to same sex relationships that are platonic.” ~Valentina (PolyCafe.org – s01:ep06 – 11m10s)
“One thing I’ve loved is I have a lot of friends who are starting to use the phrase, ‘what I’m hearing is.’ ” ~Jorge (PolyCafe.org – s01:ep06 – 13m32s)
“I think that’s a huge topic. ‘Active listening’ is literally half my book. […] Just saying, ‘this is what I think I’m hearing,’ immediately identifies when people are not on the same page. The majority of communication is, ‘are we on the same page? Let’s get on the same page.’ It’s amazing how just that solves so many issues.” ~Danny (PolyCafe.org – s01:ep06 – 14m09s)
“None of this should be exclusive to romantic partners. […] There’s no reason that only an intimate partner deserves this level of communication from me.” ~Jorge (PolyCafe.org – s01:ep06 – 15m28s)
“As soon as I got into poly, it became so clear how important communication was, because, if you think one relationship is hard, try two. In getting better at my communication with all my poly relationships, my communication across the board [and] all my relationships have gotten better. ” ~Danny (PolyCafe.org – s01:ep06 – 15m57s)
“There is a huge cultural need in our society to heal same sex relationship that are platonic.” ~Valentina (PolyCafe.org – s01:ep06 – 16m38s)
“The one thing I’ve learned in this community is that people will get into your polycule really fast. Leaving those doors open without the expectation that people are going to walk through them is probably one of the better things you can do for your future meta relationships.” ~Valentina (PolyCafe.org – s01:ep06 – 18m03s)
“Have that understanding and have the kindness and forgiveness, and don’t personalize someone else’s ‘no.’ People’s boundaries are about them. They’re not about you.” ~Valentina (PolyCafe.org – s01:ep06 – 18m28s)
“[In poly] not everyone is quite as emotionally healthy as you think they might be –and I’m completely including myself in this statement.” ~Jorge (PolyCafe.org – s01:ep06 – 18m56s)
“These are conversations I’ve never had and we’re having them as very mature adults. So I’m thinking, ‘these are very emotionally mature people.’ And then as time passes and, you know, we have various experiences and certain triggers happen here and there between me, between them, etc. I start to realize that I don’t think anyone is quite as emotionally mature as I thought initially. And that’s not a bad thing. That’s not an attack on anyone. It’s just something that I feel I would like to have been more aware of [when first discovering poly].” ~Jorge (PolyCafe.org – s01:ep06 – 19m30s)
(Summarizing Jorge) “What I heard was, meeting a poly community for the first time, there’s all these open-minded, next level people that it turns out, they all just have emotions, too. And everything’s going to go wrong at some point.” ~Danny (PolyCafe.org – s01:ep06 – 20m34s)
“I think when we come into the community, I know I did, you expect everyone to have this higher level of communication and understanding and almost like they are more enlightened. […] And then you find out that they are real people, but because you assumed so many great things that their realness almost feels worse than it would have been if you just came at it as neutral as ‘I’m a human being meeting other human beings.’ ” ~Valentina (PolyCafe.org – s01:ep06 – 21m01s)
“Rather than going instantly to, ‘they did this to me.’ I start to think to myself, ‘this is how I am feeling. I want to understand my emotions. Where is this coming from? What triggered this?’ And that’s me practicing those things with myself.” ~Jorge (PolyCafe.org – s01:ep06 – 22m42s)
“When they are talking, don’t have a response. If you have a response as they are talking, you’re not listening. Let them finish and then take a moment. Think about the thing.” ~Jorge (PolyCafe.org – s01:ep06 – 23m21s)
“I feel like I’ve become a healthier and safer space for others while also trying to practice and recognize when I’m giving too much and not giving enough to myself and upholding my own boundaries in a healthy way. And I feel like all of this has just tied together with, empathy and compassion for others; empathy and compassion for myself.” ~Jorge (PolyCafe.org – s01:ep06 – 23m59s)
“There’s a balance there between pausing your thoughts to really listen but also making sure you’re coming back and really speaking your boundaries.” ~Danny (PolyCafe.org – s01:ep06 – 24m22s)
“They might have an anxious attachment style and they are going to struggle with my request but, as hard as it is, I have to recognize that that’s their thing to deal with, I have to deal with mine.” ~Jorge (PolyCafe.org – s01:ep06 – 24m49s)
“If we’re going to grow together, we have to figure out how do we accommodate your triggers and how do we accommodate mine. –but if we cannot, I have to choose me.” ~Jorge (PolyCafe.org – s01:ep06 – 25m00s)
“It’s not my job to manage your triggers. It’s your job to handle your triggers and work on them; my job to handle my triggers and work on them.” ~Danny (PolyCafe.org – s01:ep06 – 25m10s)
“We can absolutely talk about it and be aware and I could do my best to give you grace when you’re triggers are happening, but in the end, it’s not my job to calm you down or solve your triggers.” ~Danny (PolyCafe.org – s01:ep06 – 25m18s)
“It can be really hard to learn to hold compassion while you’re also holding accountability.” ~Valentina (PolyCafe.org – s01:ep06 – 25m30s)
“Where does the line between empowering and enabling –where does it divide?” ~Jorge (PolyCafe.org – s01:ep06 – 25m43s)
“Someone is really struggling and they’ll share this with their friends and their friends will instantly respond, ‘oh, you’re amazing. You’re incredible. You’re beautiful You got this. If you need a hug, if you need this, etc.’ And that’s beautiful. That is what we all deserve. We should all receive that when we are struggling and it’s beautiful. Then I see this person posting something similar, sharing something similar the next day and they receive the same thing. And then they post something similar the next day. Now I start to feel like, day one you were getting support. Day three, day four, I think their being enablers.” ~Jorge (PolyCafe.org – s01:ep06 – 26m33s)
“That carried into another conversation of; today I will give you love and support, I will root you on, I will hug you. Tomorrow, what are you going to do to start improving?” ~Jorge (PolyCafe.org – s01:ep06 – 28m13s)
“Accountability is basically asking somebody what they are going to do and then coming back and saying, ‘did you do the thing you said you were going to do?’ ” ~Danny (PolyCafe.org – s01:ep06 – 28m49s)
“Those people who are willing to ask the triggering question and to help you hold yourself accountable, are the people who are your friends and everyone else is just your fans, acquaintances, maybe the people that are holding you back.” ~Valentina (PolyCafe.org – s01:ep06 – 29m14s)
“The word ‘community’ was not in my vocabulary and that was a big thing that I discovered that was missing from my life. And to be able to ask [for] support from a community, I think is really important.” ~Danny (PolyCafe.org – s01:ep06 – 30m57s)
“Suddenly, I find myself in a community and I’m not used to that. How do I interact with this community and not turn into a drain on the community itself?” ~Danny (PolyCafe.org – s01:ep06 – 31m27s)
“I feel like the community is definitely full of people who will just drain your energy if you let them.” ~Danny (PolyCafe.org – s01:ep06 – 32m24s)
“I support your journey, and I support you with love and light, but for my own wellbeing, I have to take a step back. This is as far as I can go with you on this journey, but I can still cheer you on while you continue.” ~Valentina (PolyCafe.org – s01:ep06 – 32m45s)
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